Help me out with my SPS tank!

A forum for people who are obsessed with keeping SPS corals.

Postby flipteg » Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:12 pm

you pretty much mentioned everything that you really need to keep SPS... from my experience, keeping the alkalinity and calcium constant at the right levels is very important... dose too little, and the parameters goes down within just a couple of days... dose too much and calcium carbonate precipitates causing alkalinity and calcium to drop... some corals are more sensitive to alkalinity swings than others...
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Postby Clam Guy » Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:53 pm

flipteg wrote:you pretty much mentioned everything that you really need to keep SPS... from my experience, keeping the alkalinity and calcium constant at the right levels is very important... dose too little, and the parameters goes down within just a couple of days... dose too much and calcium carbonate precipitates causing alkalinity and calcium to drop... some corals are more sensitive to alkalinity swings than others...


Thanks very much bro.
And God said let the water teem with living creatures and he saw that it was good.

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Postby flipteg » Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:38 pm

Mr. Clam...

i just want to ask a few questions about your lighting and skimmer...

i see you have the Deltec. nag iisip isip ako lately kung gusto ko mag setup ng malaking tank... i am considering the same skimmer that you have... my question is about the noise... i know some skimmers are very noisy... some sounds like a boiling pot of water... others are quiet... on the quiet skimmers, the only thing you hear is the hum of the pump and the falling water from the return... i was wondering what noise level is the Deltec AP600...?

also, are you using double ended or singe end MH...? what are the advantages and disadvantages of both... i am using double ended right now, but i want to keep my options open... from the recommendation of other people from other forums, for now, i think i'm up for the single end bulbs... but i want to hear your thought on this... thanks...!
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Postby Clam Guy » Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:36 pm

flipteg wrote:Mr. Clam...

i just want to ask a few questions about your lighting and skimmer...

i see you have the Deltec. nag iisip isip ako lately kung gusto ko mag setup ng malaking tank... i am considering the same skimmer that you have... my question is about the noise... i know some skimmers are very noisy... some sounds like a boiling pot of water... others are quiet... on the quiet skimmers, the only thing you hear is the hum of the pump and the falling water from the return... i was wondering what noise level is the Deltec AP600...?

also, are you using double ended or singe end MH...? what are the advantages and disadvantages of both... i am using double ended right now, but i want to keep my options open... from the recommendation of other people from other forums, for now, i think i'm up for the single end bulbs... but i want to hear your thought on this... thanks...!


Hello Flipteg,

First off, don't listen to what I say coz I know very little. What I do know is I love my Deltec AP600. Very minimal noise whatsoever and because its gravity fed, it just works wonders for me. It literally sucks up the surface gunk in the main tank.

It broke in maybe in 2 hours after I installed it and the gunk it was pulling out was thick and dark. In my opinion, it is a phenomenal skimmer that lives up to its reputation and cost :wink: . I noticed some TOTM winners in RC use deltec skimmers too. The best purchase I made for my tank by far.

But mind you my experiences with skimmers are limited and I've only had this deltec for about four weeks, so I can't really judge it fairly and I don't know if the pump will be noisy in the future. It uses a 2000LPH Aquabee pump. The bigger deltecs use Eheim pumps.

And if you're going SPS, as you know SPS need aggressive and/or quality skimming, the purchase of a quality skimmer is pretty mandatory to say the least.

I have SE 400W 14k MH. I never used MHs before except now, so I have no experience with them, and I don't particularly know the advantages and disadvantages for both SE and DE. I just went with SE because they do 400W. I'm not sure if DE does 400W anymore. I'm really enjoying my MH especially the shimmering effect that I never got with my previous t5s. When I add corals I will change my bulb to BLV 10k. Right now I have a 14k Solarmax bulb and a spare Aquahouse bulb which is also 14k.

The only thing that is noisy to a point of bothering me is my rio hyperflow return pump. I might replace it, and get eheim or sedra.

What type of tank will it be, SPS? Size? When will you upgrade?

Let me know. Cheers
And God said let the water teem with living creatures and he saw that it was good.

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Postby flipteg » Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:03 am

the upgrade is not final yet... i was just toying with the idea and starting to research the components so that i would know what to buy if i do upgrade...

but if i do get a bigger tank, it will be a 120 standard and it will be an SPS tank... at first, i considered a 58 gallon, but then i thought with the same equipment i was considering for the 58, i can actually run a 120... the only reason i want a 120 over a 58 is because i'd be able to buy the big fishes like tangs and large angelfishes that i've always wanted... with automation like auto top off, calcium reactor, etc., the 58 and the 120 i am planning for would require the same effort...

what i still don't know how to deal with is top off water... other than feedings, i want to be able to leave the tank alone for a week or 2 weeks at a time... BUT i also do not want to lug buckets of ro/di water to fill the top off reserve...
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Postby Clam Guy » Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:14 pm

Again I'm just a newbie, but I heard in wetwebmedia and some other websites that I can't remember, that CA reactors are not worth it if you have a tank less than 200G. Better to employ a kalk reactor. But if you have the budget to spend for a CA reactor go for it.

Even though my tank is 90g, with a 45g sump, I estimate the actual water volume to be about 115G. My next purchase will either be a pair of tunze streams which are very pricey as you know, or I could spend that money instead on a CA reactor and substitute the tunze streams with a pair of Seio M2600s.

I like angels too. I'm eyeing on a juvenile Imperator and a juvenile Majestic. Along with SPS, I will keep clams and maybe acans and some other LPS. If my future angel decides to nibble on the clams and some other LPS, I'll just transfer the clams and LPS to my fuge. I doubt that angels bother SPS, but we'll see.

As for tangs, I'm eyeing on a gem tang which will most probably be impossible to find and is extremely $$$$$$, or a chevron tang.

120 will be a nice tank. I assume that's a 4x2x2. 2 MHs at 250W each will do nicely for that, or better yet 2x400W!

I also want to leave the tank alone for 2 weeks. And I heard that its kind of risky to use kalkwasser as auto-top off, coz by chance it could go faulty and top off too much and wipe out your whole tank. But its a risk that people take.

Cheers,
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Postby flipteg » Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:44 pm

magkano ang electricity mo per Kw/h...? what is the total watt of your system... the cost of electricity is really the one thing i am worried about in setting up a large tank...
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Postby jon v » Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:49 pm

hi clam guy,

welcome to the world of expensive "colourful candysticks" :D

in my own experience, water quality, sufficient waterflow, and lighting plays a big role in sps keeping.

low nutrient water is the prefered condition to keep good sps colouration; this will also decrease the chance of algae infestation. i would suggest you to re-think keeping big fishes (tangs) which "poo"llutes the water; less feeding for fish and religious partial water changes. a good skimmer helps alot in maintaining the water quality. i did kept 3 tangs in my 150g tank, but feeding is one cube of brine shrimp every other day, and they just help 'maintain' my tank eating on whatever algae they lay their eyes on. at the same time, i used a 32" beckett skimmer ran by a pressure rated pump. i did 30% water change every week, carbon replaced every 2 weeks and once a month replace phosphate remover as well. if you are going for deep sandbed, go for at least 4" deep or don't go at all. shallow sandbed are likely to be disturbed by fishes or water movements and in time will be doomed to crash. bare bottom has been the trend lately, but i dont seem to like the idea of liverocks on the glass; starboard will help though.

i would advise you to drop the idea of seio pumps and just invest on the tunzes; it will help you create reasonable currents to keep your sps healthy. i did used 2 x 6060 tunzes and 1 x 6100 controllable, and it was just enough for my 4footer tank.

i experimented alot on lights; first used 2 x 150w 10kk mh but its useless.
switched to 2 x 250w 20kk blv, at that time i can say it was good and much pleasing to my eyes more than for my sps conditions. then switched to 2 x 250w 10kk and 1 x 400w 6500k blv and can see the great improvements as compared to the 20kk blvs. my rig was 2 x 250w 6500k and 2 x 250w 10kk blv, it was an eyes sore for me as it gave a "yellowish" fresh water look so i added t5 actinic blue. with all this experimentation, i must say for better growth, 6500k is rest good, colouration is 10kk, while pleasing to our eyes is 20kk. I havent tried 14kk though or 400w 20kk and all these observations are based on my experience. what worked well for me is my 3rd setup; 2 x 250 w a 400w.
my photoperiod:
2:00pm 2 x 250w on
5:00pm 1 x 400w on
8:00pm 1 x 400w off
9:00pm t5 actinics on
10:00pm 2 x 250w off
2:00am t5 actinics off
i used this photoperiod as it adopts well to my life; im not around in the whole day to appreciate the tank; so its at night time that i set my photoperiod.

other than that, calcium reactor would help alot in maintaining an sps tank; i also use a diy kalk dripper to support it. as you would notice if ca goes up, kh goes down and vise versa so you should try to check and balance regularly. i maintain my ca at 420-450 while kh 8-9. water temperature is set at 25degC and chiller will kick off once it hits 27.5degC (this allows another .5degC before cold water starts to kick in and drop)

im setting up my reef tank again, a 90gallon as well. pardon me for my long post, trying to share my experience :D
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Postby Clam Guy » Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:04 pm

flipteg wrote:magkano ang electricity mo per Kw/h...? what is the total watt of your system... the cost of electricity is really the one thing i am worried about in setting up a large tank...


Good question. I actually don't know fully what the costs will be. My chiller is set to chill at 30C coz I only keep two fish and two cleaner shrimp and 8 turbos right now. My MH is on 2hrs a day only, with the t5 actinics on for 4 hours.

But when I go all SPS and have more livestock, my chiller will run more as I will set it to 27, and my lights with the MH/Actinic combo will be 10 hours, 8 MH, 10 hours actinics with dusk and dawn effect. I will also add chaeto to my fuge that will be on reverse cycle, plus more power heads and maybe a calcium reactor and/or kalk reactor.

Check out my thread below:

http://www.reefphilippines.com/forums/v ... 11&start=0

But here is an excerpt of it, prices are expressed in PHP:

400W MH on 10 hours a day, 7 days a week, 4 weeks = 976.14
2x24w T5 Actinics on 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, 4 weeks = 140.57
2x24W T5 Sunpros for my Fuge 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, 4 weeks = 140.57
Skimmer, 4 pumps on 24/7 = 855.14
300W Chiller on 2 hours a day, 7 days a week, 4 weeks = 146.43

Total 2258.85 PHP, I actually budgeted 4k total so was nice to know it’s much lower than 4k

Now looking back at that, I presume that my chiller will cost more, and my lightings will cost less as I will decrease each MH and Actinics by 2 hours.

Total Watts for my system:

Lets see:

Lights 400W + 48W
Fuge Lights 48W
Chiller 300W

All pumps running 24/7 Approx
Aquabee 2000LPH for Deltec 38W
Seaquest 1600 for chiller 18W
Rio Hyperflow 14HF for return 40W
2 M820 Seios not sure but I think they're 22W each so 44W total.

Total Wattage is close to 1k. I will also add more powerheads and a reactor or two that will increase the total wattage.

Hope that helps.
And God said let the water teem with living creatures and he saw that it was good.

http://www.reefphilippines.com/forums/v ... php?t=7694
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Postby Clam Guy » Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:20 pm

jon v wrote:hi clam guy,

welcome to the world of expensive "colourful candysticks" :D

I agree :lol:

in my own experience, water quality, sufficient waterflow, and lighting plays a big role in sps keeping.

low nutrient water is the prefered condition to keep good sps colouration; this will also decrease the chance of algae infestation. i would suggest you to re-think keeping big fishes (tangs) which "poo"llutes the water; less feeding for fish and religious partial water changes.

Good point Jon V

a good skimmer helps alot in maintaining the water quality. i did kept 3 tangs in my 150g tank, but feeding is one cube of brine shrimp every other day, and they just help 'maintain' my tank eating on whatever algae they lay their eyes on. at the same time, i used a 32" beckett skimmer ran by a pressure rated pump. i did 30% water change every week, carbon replaced every 2 weeks and once a month replace phosphate remover as well.

Man you got good husbandry

if you are going for deep sandbed, go for at least 4" deep or don't go at all. shallow sandbed are likely to be disturbed by fishes or water movements and in time will be doomed to crash. bare bottom has been the trend lately, but i dont seem to like the idea of liverocks on the glass; starboard will help though.

I took out my 8" DSB in my fuge. I have a 1" SSB in my main tank, but its a pain to get it out as my tank is 30" tall and the LRs are in place. If I had to do it all again, I would go BBT, and go crazy on flow and skimming.

i would advise you to drop the idea of seio pumps and just invest on the tunzes; it will help you create reasonable currents to keep your sps healthy. i did used 2 x 6060 tunzes and 1 x 6100 controllable, and it was just enough for my 4footer tank.

Awesome!

i experimented alot on lights; first used 2 x 150w 10kk mh but its useless.

I have found SPS keepers around the world say the same thing as you when it comes to 150W MH

switched to 2 x 250w 20kk blv, at that time i can say it was good and much pleasing to my eyes more than for my sps conditions. then switched to 2 x 250w 10kk and 1 x 400w 6500k blv and can see the great improvements as compared to the 20kk blvs.

Wow really? I can actually source BLV bulbs was thinking of 10K, in the hopes of colouration.

my rig was 2 x 250w 6500k and 2 x 250w 10kk blv, it was an eyes sore for me as it gave a "yellowish" fresh water look so i added t5 actinic blue. with all this experimentation, i must say for better growth, 6500k is rest good, colouration is 10kk, while pleasing to our eyes is 20kk. I havent tried 14kk though or 400w 20kk and all these observations are based on my experience. what worked well for me is my 3rd setup; 2 x 250 w a 400w.
my photoperiod:
2:00pm 2 x 250w on
5:00pm 1 x 400w on
8:00pm 1 x 400w off
9:00pm t5 actinics on
10:00pm 2 x 250w off
2:00am t5 actinics off
i used this photoperiod as it adopts well to my life; im not around in the whole day to appreciate the tank; so its at night time that i set my photoperiod.

That's great lighting. I have 1 400W SE 14k MH with 2x24W t5 actinics spread over a 30Lx24Wx30H. Am thinking of going 8 hours MH, 10 hours actinics, and will replace the bulb to BLV 10k, once I get SPS.


other than that, calcium reactor would help alot in maintaining an sps tank;

Yes, I'm thinking of purchasing a CR and/or kalk reactor once I get the feel of dosing manually. I have no experience with CRs and kalk reactors, but would love to employ either two.

i also use a diy kalk dripper to support it. as you would notice if ca goes up, kh goes down and vise versa so you should try to check and balance regularly. i maintain my ca at 420-450 while kh 8-9. water temperature is set at 25degC and chiller will kick off once it hits 27.5degC (this allows another .5degC before cold water starts to kick in and drop)

im setting up my reef tank again, a 90gallon as well. pardon me for my long post, trying to share my experience :D


Thanks Jon V, nice of you to share your advice and experience.
And God said let the water teem with living creatures and he saw that it was good.

http://www.reefphilippines.com/forums/v ... php?t=7694
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Postby kax1500g » Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:28 pm

But here is an excerpt of it, prices are expressed in PHP:

400W MH on 10 hours a day, 7 days a week, 4 weeks = 976.14
2x24w T5 Actinics on 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, 4 weeks = 140.57
2x24W T5 Sunpros for my Fuge 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, 4 weeks = 140.57
Skimmer, 4 pumps on 24/7 = 855.14
300W Chiller on 2 hours a day, 7 days a week, 4 weeks = 146.43


Hey Bro,
How did you compute this? Like, how much do meralco charge per watt?

Thanks,
Jeff
Life is a never ending journey of learning. And so is reef keeping.
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Postby CLYVZ » Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:21 am

Hi Clam,
How's the SPS set-up doing? ako need to put the Chiller pa...using the rubber coated copper dip coils with split type AC. I got the Dip coils in Singapore with Jon V's help. I made my set-up almost exactly what Jon V advised...you can visit my tank..yun lang wala pang laman SPS...
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Postby jackryan » Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:49 am

Raymond, I think this was CG's old tank. I think he is embarking on a new one, right?
JackRyan's 225G 6'x2'x2.5' Tank Project

* RO (DDNW-150-6530 2pumps) + ORP
* Teco TR20 + 2x MaxSpect 160w LEDs + Vin's Cab+Sump *
* 2x Vortech MP40W + RKE + FS-WaveBox + 3xTunze Pumps on 2x 7095's + HF20 *
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Postby CLYVZ » Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:09 pm

jackryan wrote:Raymond, I think this was CG's old tank. I think he is embarking on a new one, right?


Yup you are correct...just got a PM from him..Cycling na raw siya...another SPS tank in the making...great stuff!
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