Help me out with my SPS tank!

A forum for people who are obsessed with keeping SPS corals.

Help me out with my SPS tank!

Postby Clam Guy » Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:35 am

Hello Reefers :D

OK, my setup is in my signature. I'm planning to keep SPS as some of you may know. I think not many people have really attempted to keep them here, except for maybe Christian and Swillydriver. Having them grow and stay brown is not really acceptable for me :x ... hehehe. I want to colour them up, so I need your help before I try this. :?

Here's what I know they need:

- They need the lowest nutrients as possible, 0 nitrates, 0 phosphates, and of course always 0 Amm and 0 Nitrite
- They need a great skimmer, hence my purchase of a Deltec
- Stable water paremeters
- Calcium 450
- KH 10
- SG 1.025
- Magnesium 1300
- Kalk and or CA reactor, or dose manually
- MH of at least 250W, 10k - 14 k for best colour. I heard 150W doesn't do anything except grow them and keep them brown. This is also what I heard with T5s, they just grow under them and rarely do they colour up. Hopefully my 400W 14k MH will help.
- The trend in HK, Singapore and Europe is Bare Bottom Tanks (BBT). Most people have switched to (BBT) and have really noticed improved colouration, I'm really tempted to go (BBT) in my main tank, or at least remove my DSB in my sump.
- They need lots of flow. I have x18 with my seios, x28 if I include my return pump. But that's nothing, I want at least x50 so might really invest in a Tunze Stream.
- They must be introduced after 6 months of setting up one's system.. Haha, don't know if I can wait that long.

And most importantly:

- Great husbandry
- and lots of Tender Loving Care!

Am I missing anything else? Christian? Phil? Other SPS fanatics? Please grace me with your knowledge and experience. Thanks in advance.
And God said let the water teem with living creatures and he saw that it was good.

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Postby Deuce67 » Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:23 am

Your KH is a tad on the high side. Bring it down to around 8-9 DKH. SPS needs some nutrients to keep thier colors. No worries on your part since you have a nice Deltec. If you see your sps colors lightening a bit, just feed the fish a little more. Personally, I hate the BB look. It just looks too sterile for me. My sps 90G has a 2 inch sandbed and is doing great. With the 400W MH, I would not have them on for more than 8 hrs a day. Try to get as much flow as you can. I currently have around 70X.
150G main, 50G sump, 29G fuge
2X400W MH 12K Reeflux
4X24W T5HO Actinics
Orca custom skimmer
DIY Calcium Reactor
2X Tunze 6100
CL with a Sequence Dart
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Re: Help me out with my SPS tank!

Postby jensen » Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:12 am

Clam Guy wrote:Hello Reefers :D

OK, my setup is in my signature. I'm planning to keep SPS as some of you may know. I think not many people have really attempted to keep them here, except for maybe Christian and Swillydriver. Having them grow and stay brown is not really acceptable for me :x ... hehehe. I want to colour them up, so I need your help before I try this. :?

Here's what I know they need:

- They need the lowest nutrients as possible, 0 nitrates, 0 phosphates, and of course always 0 Amm and 0 Nitrite
- They need a great skimmer, hence my purchase of a Deltec
- Stable water paremeters
- Calcium 450
- KH 10
- SG 1.025
- Magnesium 1300
- Kalk and or CA reactor, or dose manually
- MH of at least 250W, 10k - 14 k for best colour. I heard 150W doesn't do anything except grow them and keep them brown. This is also what I heard with T5s, they just grow under them and rarely do they colour up. Hopefully my 400W 14k MH will help.
- The trend in HK, Singapore and Europe is Bare Bottom Tanks (BBT). Most people have switched to (BBT) and have really noticed improved colouration, I'm really tempted to go (BBT) in my main tank, or at least remove my DSB in my sump.
- They need lots of flow. I have x18 with my seios, x28 if I include my return pump. But that's nothing, I want at least x50 so might really invest in a Tunze Stream.
- They must be introduced after 6 months of setting up one's system.. Haha, don't know if I can wait that long.

And most importantly:

- Great husbandry
- and lots of Tender Loving Care!

Am I missing anything else? Christian? Phil? Other SPS fanatics? Please grace me with your knowledge and experience. Thanks in advance.
Everything looks great from what you are describing. Only we are a big fan of 400w 20k xm's or radium here. Nonetheless, 250w 14k should do the trick... are you using SE or DE 14k's? You'd have more success on the DE's and supplement it with actinics. KH should be in the 9's as well.

Re: BBT, it shouldn't not affect your colorations whether you run it with or without. Good skimming, flow, lighting, low nutrients are the key IMHO.
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Postby Clam Guy » Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:17 am

Deuce67 wrote:Your KH is a tad on the high side. Bring it down to around 8-9 DKH. SPS needs some nutrients to keep thier colors. No worries on your part since you have a nice Deltec. If you see your sps colors lightening a bit, just feed the fish a little more. Personally, I hate the BB look. It just looks too sterile for me. My sps 90G has a 2 inch sandbed and is doing great. With the 400W MH, I would not have them on for more than 8 hrs a day. Try to get as much flow as you can. I currently have around 70X.


Wow Deuce67! I checked out your tank in the members section. Wicked! Very impressive. You have a 90G too, and you succeeded in the long term, so I guess you can help me out a lot.

I agree with the photoperiod. I was planning on 8 hours MH, 12 hours actinics.

And yes, with the flow. My flow is way too weak. Will do something about it and will work around 8 or 9 DKH.

A few questions for you:

1) What was your temp?

2) What was your pH?

3) How often did you do WCs?

4) How many fish did you put in your 90G, and how many inverts?
I currently have 1 copperband butterfly, 1 algae blenny, 8 turbo snails and 2 Cleaner Shrimp.

I plan to have along with my current live stock:

1 Chevron Tang or Gem Tang
1 Firefish
1 Leopard Wrasse
1 Mandarin

Is the above overstocking?

5) Did you ever use carbon?

6) Did you have a fuge?

7) Did you have a remote DSB? I have one here, see pic below. Is that really going to be any effective and I plan to put chaeto there in the future, would they both compete for nutrients and hence one would suffer? Am I better just keeping dsb or chaeto or both? Please advise.

Image

8) How long did you wait before you introduced your first sps?

9) Did you find with your 71x flow that sandstorms were created in your main tank?

Sorry for the many questions but I really want to get this right.

Cheers
And God said let the water teem with living creatures and he saw that it was good.

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Re: Help me out with my SPS tank!

Postby Clam Guy » Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:23 am

jensen wrote:
Clam Guy wrote:Hello Reefers :D

OK, my setup is in my signature. I'm planning to keep SPS as some of you may know. I think not many people have really attempted to keep them here, except for maybe Christian and Swillydriver. Having them grow and stay brown is not really acceptable for me :x ... hehehe. I want to colour them up, so I need your help before I try this. :?

Here's what I know they need:

- They need the lowest nutrients as possible, 0 nitrates, 0 phosphates, and of course always 0 Amm and 0 Nitrite
- They need a great skimmer, hence my purchase of a Deltec
- Stable water paremeters
- Calcium 450
- KH 10
- SG 1.025
- Magnesium 1300
- Kalk and or CA reactor, or dose manually
- MH of at least 250W, 10k - 14 k for best colour. I heard 150W doesn't do anything except grow them and keep them brown. This is also what I heard with T5s, they just grow under them and rarely do they colour up. Hopefully my 400W 14k MH will help.
- The trend in HK, Singapore and Europe is Bare Bottom Tanks (BBT). Most people have switched to (BBT) and have really noticed improved colouration, I'm really tempted to go (BBT) in my main tank, or at least remove my DSB in my sump.
- They need lots of flow. I have x18 with my seios, x28 if I include my return pump. But that's nothing, I want at least x50 so might really invest in a Tunze Stream.
- They must be introduced after 6 months of setting up one's system.. Haha, don't know if I can wait that long.

And most importantly:

- Great husbandry
- and lots of Tender Loving Care!

Am I missing anything else? Christian? Phil? Other SPS fanatics? Please grace me with your knowledge and experience. Thanks in advance.
Everything looks great from what you are describing. Only we are a big fan of 400w 20k xm's or radium here. Nonetheless, 250w 14k should do the trick... are you using SE or DE 14k's? You'd have more success on the DE's and supplement it with actinics. KH should be in the 9's as well.

Re: BBT, it shouldn't not affect your colorations whether you run it with or without. Good skimming, flow, lighting, low nutrients are the key IMHO.


Hello Jensen!

Your store looks great btw. Will keep kH in the 9s. How bout pH and temp?

I have SE 400W 14k MH. Its Solarmax brand, a HK brand with 2x24W T5 actinics.

How long should I wait till I add my first SPS?

Thanks Jensen...
And God said let the water teem with living creatures and he saw that it was good.

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Re: Help me out with my SPS tank!

Postby jensen » Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:59 am

Hello Jensen!

Your store looks great btw. Will keep kH in the 9s. How bout pH and temp?

I have SE 400W 14k MH. Its Solarmax brand, a HK brand with 2x24W T5 actinics.

How long should I wait till I add my first SPS?

Thanks Jensen...
Thanks clamguy. Our PH coming from the effluent is about 6.7 constantly and from the tank is 8-8.3. Try to put more actinics... perhaps 4x54w actinics... 2 in each front and back. Im not familiar with solarmax brand but you can try XM or RADIUM bulbs 20k using an HQI ballast which overdrives it to about 430w if you can get them and I can guarantee you you'll pull wicked colorations. We always keep our temp on the 78-80 degree F.

Can't help but notice that you are planning of putting a gem tang in your tank... we have been after this fish for about 12 yrs now and can't seem to locate one. Very RARE fish that comes out of Mauritius and it costs about $1800-$2500 USD. Btw, you have too small of a fish bioload.

How many lights are you running currently? Provide plenty of lighting, reduce nutrient to the lowest possible, good skimming, feed, flow and you'll be alright.
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Re: Help me out with my SPS tank!

Postby jensen » Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:59 am

Hello Jensen!

Your store looks great btw. Will keep kH in the 9s. How bout pH and temp?

I have SE 400W 14k MH. Its Solarmax brand, a HK brand with 2x24W T5 actinics.

How long should I wait till I add my first SPS?

Thanks Jensen...
Thanks clamguy. Our PH coming from the effluent is about 6.7 constantly and from the tank is 8-8.3. Try to put more actinics... perhaps 4x54w actinics... 2 in each front and back. Im not familiar with solarmax brand but you can try XM or RADIUM bulbs 20k using an HQI ballast which overdrives it to about 430w if you can get them and I can guarantee you you'll pull wicked colorations. We always keep our temp on the 78-80 degree F.

Can't help but notice that you are planning of putting a gem tang in your tank... we have been after this fish for about 12 yrs now and can't seem to locate one. Very RARE fish that comes out of Mauritius and it costs about $1800-$2500 USD. Btw, not to worry about putting those fishes you plan to keep, you're not overstocking them. I have a friend that has 120 fishes in a 90 gallon and his is doing just fine. We had about 28 on our 90 gal before.

How many lights are you running currently? Provide plenty of lighting, reduce nutrient to the lowest possible, good skimming, feed, flow and you'll be alright. No need for fancy, expensive gadgets... you know what I mean :wink: :wink:

As far as photoperiod, 12 hrs are more than enough with 10 hours MH/Actinic combo and typically 1 hour each dawn/dusk
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Re: Help me out with my SPS tank!

Postby Clam Guy » Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:08 am

jensen wrote:
Hello Jensen!

Your store looks great btw. Will keep kH in the 9s. How bout pH and temp?

I have SE 400W 14k MH. Its Solarmax brand, a HK brand with 2x24W T5 actinics.

How long should I wait till I add my first SPS?

Thanks Jensen...
Thanks clamguy. Our PH coming from the effluent is about 6.7 constantly and from the tank is 8-8.3.

I have no experience yet with kalk and CA reactors. I will dose manually first to get the feel of my system, then will invest in one or both. But 8 - 8.3 sounds good.

Try to put more actinics... perhaps 4x54w actinics... 2 in each front and back.

OK

Im not familiar with solarmax brand but you can try XM or RADIUM bulbs 20k using an HQI ballast which overdrives it to about 430w if you can get them and I can guarantee you you'll pull wicked colorations

I'm not sure if I can get them. For sure Philippines doesn't have them. I will try HK again. HK sells BLV bulbs, what do you know about BLV?

We always keep our temp on the 78-80 degree F.

OK, will set my chiller to 27

Can't help but notice that you are planning of putting a gem tang in your tank... we have been after this fish for about 12 yrs now and can't seem to locate one. Very RARE fish that comes out of Mauritius and it costs about $1800-$2500 USD.

When I saw a photo of this fish in RC, I went nuts! Just got to have it! If I get it, I'm crazy. Hahaha.

Btw, not to worry about putting those fishes you plan to keep, you're not overstocking them. I have a friend that has 120 fishes in a 90 gallon and his is doing just fine. We had about 28 on our 90 gal before.

That's awesome! I shouldn't have any problems with excess nutrients, hence my SPS will benefit from my proposed livestock.

How many lights are you running currently?

1 400W 14K SE MH, with 2x24W t5 actinics.
Provide plenty of lighting, reduce nutrient to the lowest possible, good skimming, feed, flow and you'll be alright. No need for fancy, expensive gadgets... you know what I mean :wink: :wink:

Yes, I sure do :lol:

As far as photoperiod, 12 hrs are more than enough with 10 hours MH/Actinic combo and typically 1 hour each dawn/dusk


That's great! 8 hrs MH, 10hrs t5 actinics.

I have 18x flow, I know its too little, what would you recommend. Buy lots of cheap seios or just get a tunze 6100 or 6200?

Thanks for your input Jensen. Its nice to get help from someone with lots of long term success.
And God said let the water teem with living creatures and he saw that it was good.

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Postby sHARKZ » Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:12 pm

Hi clam guy,

I can see u received a lot of gd advised from reefers here and u've been doing a lot of researched. Good for you...
I believed your tank is just 3wks old, give it sometime for it to mature. check para regularly, ensure its stable. thats the success of keeping SPS, stable water para. Too mush swing will cause it to stress or worst STN. if possible keep ur NO3 0 or close to it. Too high KH might cause burn tip especially birdnest, which is sensitive to high KH. Low nutrient will colour up ur SPS, so go easy with the fish food, as they also contribute to high nutrient. If u dun mind with the BBT, go for it!! But u need strong pump to circulate your tank let the ditritus float and into your overflow, otherwise they will settle at the bottom of your tank...which can be quite sightlyand need to be siphon out. I would suggest go for tunze TS 12 and ur seio can be place at dead spot. BLV 10k is good for colour and growth which i use previously currently i use reeflux 12k. still testing the bulb. If u plan to go for full SPS tank, i suggest u invest in a CR. dosing of CA and ALK every now and then can be very tedious. I've done that :oops: CA and KH drop very fast.....start with easy to keep SPS...like monti, digitata.
Cheers........ :wink:
3ft tank
beckett w md 55
CR w rowalith c
2 tunze 6060
1 tunze 6080
MH 250 wt w reeflux 12 k
t5 w ati blue+
ehiem 1262 return pump
1/2 hp chiller
FR w rowaphos
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Postby Clam Guy » Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:37 pm

sHARKZ wrote:Hi clam guy,

I can see u received a lot of gd advised from reefers here and u've been doing a lot of researched. Good for you...
I believed your tank is just 3wks old, give it sometime for it to mature. check para regularly, ensure its stable. thats the success of keeping SPS, stable water para. Too mush swing will cause it to stress or worst STN. if possible keep ur NO3 0 or close to it. Too high KH might cause burn tip especially birdnest, which is sensitive to high KH. Low nutrient will colour up ur SPS, so go easy with the fish food, as they also contribute to high nutrient. If u dun mind with the BBT, go for it!! But u need strong pump to circulate your tank let the ditritus float and into your overflow, otherwise they will settle at the bottom of your tank...which can be quite sightlyand need to be siphon out. I would suggest go for tunze TS 12 and ur seio can be place at dead spot. BLV 10k is good for colour and growth which i use previously currently i use reeflux 12k. still testing the bulb. If u plan to go for full SPS tank, i suggest u invest in a CR. dosing of CA and ALK every now and then can be very tedious. I've done that :oops: CA and KH drop very fast.....start with easy to keep SPS...like monti, digitata.
Cheers........ :wink:


Thanks sHARKZ for the advice! I can see from your sig, that you got one heck of a system! I'm really tempted to go BBT, as I want to power up my flow too! Yes, I've done quite a bit of research, but still nothing beats experience. I will go slow, so when should I add monts, digitatas? 3 months ok?

Nice to know BLV is good, ok will invest in that. Yes a CR is a good idea, especially in the long run.
And God said let the water teem with living creatures and he saw that it was good.

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Postby sHARKZ » Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:48 pm

when should I add monts, digitatas? 3 months ok?

Depends. ensure your ANN cycle is completed. check para regularly ensure its stable. and when u got monti, always look out for nudis b4 u introduce to ur tank.

Nice to know BLV is good, ok will invest in that. Yes a CR is a good idea, especially in the long run.

its a gd bulb...only the colour is yellowish. but with T5 actinic, should be
not problem.
3ft tank
beckett w md 55
CR w rowalith c
2 tunze 6060
1 tunze 6080
MH 250 wt w reeflux 12 k
t5 w ati blue+
ehiem 1262 return pump
1/2 hp chiller
FR w rowaphos
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Postby Clam Guy » Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:52 pm

Ok, thanks. I can source BLV and they're quite cheap. Will try the 400W SE 10ks.
And God said let the water teem with living creatures and he saw that it was good.

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Postby Deuce67 » Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:45 pm

Hi Clam Guy!

1) I keep my temp around 78-80 F
2)Ph range from 7.9 at lights on to 8.3 at lights out
3)I do a 10G WC every Sunday morning.
4)Currently I have 2 green chromis, Midas blenny, sixline wrasse, Pink spotted goby, Goldbar rabbitfish, Yellow Tang, purple Tang and a Majestic angel. Inverts I have around 25 asteras, 25 ceriths, 12 hermits, 12 nassarius, sand sifting star, brittle star and a Coral banded shrimp.
You will not be overstocked on your fish plans. I would love to have a Gem Tang but $$$$!
5)I run 1 cup of carbon in a filter bag and I just toss it in the sump. Change out every 2 weeks.
6)No Fuge
7) No remote DSB
So now your wondering what else I use for nutrient export huh? My tank is on Zeovit. Im not sure if Zeovit is available in the Philippines but I know some folks in Hong Kong and Singapore uses this method. But it is pretty pricey. I know some folks that use a remote DSB and use chaeto with good results.
8) When I first setup my 90G, I didnt think I was going to do sps. When I bought ny first one, an Acropora Mille, the tank has been running for 6 months.
9) I never really had a major sand storm. Just have to properly aim your powerheads.

HTH Clam guy!
150G main, 50G sump, 29G fuge
2X400W MH 12K Reeflux
4X24W T5HO Actinics
Orca custom skimmer
DIY Calcium Reactor
2X Tunze 6100
CL with a Sequence Dart
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Postby Deuce67 » Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:45 pm

Double post. Sorry.
150G main, 50G sump, 29G fuge
2X400W MH 12K Reeflux
4X24W T5HO Actinics
Orca custom skimmer
DIY Calcium Reactor
2X Tunze 6100
CL with a Sequence Dart
Deuce67
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Posts: 191
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:50 pm
Location: CO

Postby Clam Guy » Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:18 pm

Deuce67 wrote:Hi Clam Guy!

1) I keep my temp around 78-80 F

Will set mine to 27

2)Ph range from 7.9 at lights on to 8.3 at lights out

Right now, mine is 8.2 lights off, 8.4 lights on.

3)I do a 10G WC every Sunday morning.

Great husbandry!

4)Currently I have 2 green chromis, Midas blenny, sixline wrasse, Pink spotted goby, Goldbar rabbitfish, Yellow Tang, purple Tang and a Majestic angel. Inverts I have around 25 asteras, 25 ceriths, 12 hermits, 12 nassarius, sand sifting star, brittle star and a Coral banded shrimp.
You will not be overstocked on your fish plans. I would love to have a Gem Tang but $$$$!

Gem Tangs are truly exotic. I will search for this when I go to HK this year. If I can't find it, which is the most likely scenario, I'll settle with a Chevron or Purple Tang. Does your YT and PT have a scruff every now and then? I want to keep an Angel, maybe a Regal. Will it nip on my clams and acans?

5)I run 1 cup of carbon in a filter bag and I just toss it in the sump. Change out every 2 weeks.

Great! I won't bother with a carbon reactor.

6)No Fuge
7) No remote DSB

Having both are very popular here in Philippines as you probably have guessed from reading the threads and the members' tanks.

So now your wondering what else I use for nutrient export huh? My tank is on Zeovit. Im not sure if Zeovit is available in the Philippines but I know some folks in Hong Kong and Singapore uses this method. But it is pretty pricey. I know some folks that use a remote DSB and use chaeto with good results.

Yup, very popular over in HK and Singapore, and you're right... pretty pricey. I think I'll just go with a fuge, and if that fails in terms of keeping phosphates down, I'll add up a phosphate reactor. I shouldn't have much problem with nitrates, as I'm a bi fan of underfeeding and understocking.. hehehe.

8) When I first setup my 90G, I didnt think I was going to do sps. When I bought ny first one, an Acropora Mille, the tank has been running for 6 months.

6 months is wise. I will start with some acans first, and maybe a plate coral and some maximas.

9) I never really had a major sand storm. Just have to properly aim your powerheads.

Good to know! I have 1" SSB in the main tank and I plan to keep it. I don't want to take it out. My tank is 30" tall and it will be too much trouble.

HTH Clam guy!


Cheers Deuce67! Much appreciated.
And God said let the water teem with living creatures and he saw that it was good.

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