Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover

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Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover

Postby choypogi07 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:39 am

hi SM,

have been wanting to setup an ATS on my tank, but haven't got the chance since then. but am now looking forward next month to integrate it on my setup.. please advise how big should the screen be with my current specs:

DT: 35 gallons
Sump: 15 gallons

required screen size: ?
required light watts: ?
flow duration: ?
light duration: ?

thanks in advance..
corals die faster than fish when even one of your parameters is off the charts..
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Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover

Postby SantaMonica » Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:46 am

Feeding?

Scrubbers are now sized according to feeding. Nutrients "in" (feeding) must equal nutrients "out" (scrubber growth), no matter how many gallons you have. So...

An example VERTICAL waterfall screen size is 3 X 4 inches = 12 square inches of screen (7.5 X 10 cm = 75 sq cm) with a total of 12 real watts (not equivalent) of fluorescent light for 18 hours a day. If all 12 watts are on one side, it is a 1-sided screen. If 6 watts are on each side, it is a 2-sided screen, but the total is still 12 watts for 18 hours a day. This screen size and wattage should be able to handle the following amounts of daily feeding:

1 frozen cube per day (2-sided screen), or
1/2 frozen cube per day (1-sided screen), or
10 pinches of flake food per day (2-sided screen), or
5 pinches of flake food per day (1-sided screen), or
10 square inches (60 sq cm) of nori per day (2-sided screen), or
5 square inches (30 sq cm) of nori per day (1-sided screen), or
0.1 dry ounce (2.8 grams) of pellet food per day (2-sided screen), or
0.05 dry ounce (1.4 grams) of pellet food per day (1-sided screen)

High-wattage technique: Double the wattage, and cut the hours in half (to 9 per day). This will get brown screens to grow green much faster. Thus the example above would be 12 watts on each side, for a total of 24 watts, but for only 9 hours per day. If growth starts to turn YELLOW, then increase the flow, or add iron, or reduce the number of hours. And since the bulbs are operating for 9 hours instead of 18, they will last 6 months instead of 3 months.

HORIZONTAL screens: Multiply the screen size by 4, and the wattage by 1.5Flow is 24 hours, and is at least 35 gph per inch of width of screen [60 lph per cm], EVEN IF one sided or horizontal.

Very rough screen made of roughed-up-like-a-cactus plastic canvas.

Clean algae off of screen every 7 to 14 days, so that you can see the white screen material.
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Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover

Postby choypogi07 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:11 pm

thanks SM.. currently feeding half a cube of frozen food a day.. off to find some plastic canvas.. :D
corals die faster than fish when even one of your parameters is off the charts..
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Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover

Postby neyes_ice » Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:05 pm

Hi SM, question for you, does ATS do anything to a non-RO/DI water? good or bad.

also, could you have too much flow for the ATS? meaning using the overflow for the waterfall?
and is bigger always better for the ATS filtration? thank you for your time.
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Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover

Postby SantaMonica » Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:43 am

You can't have too much flow, but a bigger screen is not alway better. Use the size guideline above. If it's too big, the screen won't have enough nutrients to grow thick, and will always be thin and brown.

A scrubber (algae) does remove most of the "bad" things in tap water (after all, algae does all the filtering in lakes and oceans), but it is not known yet if they are ALL removed. And what certainly is not known is if they are removed fast enough for you to put tap water right into your tank for top-offs (it's already assumed that you are not doing water changes anymore, so we are not talking about changing huge amounts of tap water at once; just small amounts via top off). Chlorine is definitely not removed by algae, but chlorine will, in tiny amounts, evaporate as the water is circulated in the system. Chloramines (chlorine + ammonia) do not evaporate, but fortunately they are broken apart by ascorbate and ascorbic acid, both of which are produced by algae. After the chloramines are broken apart, the chlorine evaporates and the ammonia is eaten by the algae. Again the question is if this is done fast enough.

Some people are experimenting with using tap water instead of RO or RODI, but there are few results yet. I myself have a test 10 gal FW nano that I top off with tap (unconditioned), and for over two years it's been doing great. I pour in about a 1/2 gallon of tap water at a time. I also put a few gallons of tap water into my reef sometimes, but not enough to call it "top off" all the time.

If you have live rock, or live sand, or any corals or inverts at all, your problem becomes copper. Copper can occur in city water or in wells. Yes a scrubber (i.e., algae) consumes copper, but the question is will the copper be removed fast enough so that no damage occurs. It really varies by how strong your scrubber is, so it would be an experiment for you. The best test would be to start with an new tank, and add corals or inverts one at a time (cheapest first).

If you do add tap water, do it the day before you clean your screen, so that you have the most algae possible
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Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover

Postby neyes_ice » Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:39 pm

great info! thanks again.
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Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover

Postby engrchun » Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:35 am

hi SM, what color of algae should be on the system ATS? should it be green?
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Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover

Postby SantaMonica » Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:26 am

Green is best.
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Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover

Postby engrchun » Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:49 am

ill check it later. baka dark green un. lol
im planning to setup new tank. cguro ill use turf algae filter.
natural sunlight. morning sunlight. then mirror at the back of the screen.
tnx
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Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover

Postby engrchun » Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:17 pm

hi SM,
if ill run a FOWLR with this kind of filter.
do i still have to put up UV to kill bacterias?
if so, do i have to put it before or after ATF?
tnx
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Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover

Postby engrchun » Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:05 pm

how much light will it require for every inch of the screen?
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Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover

Postby SantaMonica » Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:17 am

You do not need a UV for nutrient filtering; only for disease filtering.

Scrubbers are now sized according to feeding. Nutrients "in" (feeding) must equal nutrients "out" (scrubber growth), no matter how many gallons you have. So...

An example VERTICAL waterfall screen size is 3 X 4 inches = 12 square inches of screen (7.5 X 10 cm = 75 sq cm) with a total of 12 real watts (not equivalent) of fluorescent light for 18 hours a day. If all 12 watts are on one side, it is a 1-sided screen. If 6 watts are on each side, it is a 2-sided screen, but the total is still 12 watts for 18 hours a day. This screen size and wattage should be able to handle the following amounts of daily feeding:

1 frozen cube per day (2-sided screen), or
1/2 frozen cube per day (1-sided screen), or
10 pinches of flake food per day (2-sided screen), or
5 pinches of flake food per day (1-sided screen), or
10 square inches (60 sq cm) of nori per day (2-sided screen), or
5 square inches (30 sq cm) of nori per day (1-sided screen), or
0.1 dry ounce (2.8 grams) of pellet food per day (2-sided screen), or
0.05 dry ounce (1.4 grams) of pellet food per day (1-sided screen)

High-wattage technique: Double the wattage, and cut the hours in half (to 9 per day). This will get brown screens to grow green much faster. Thus the example above would be 12 watts on each side, for a total of 24 watts, but for only 9 hours per day. If growth starts to turn YELLOW, then increase the flow, or add iron, or reduce the number of hours. And since the bulbs are operating for 9 hours instead of 18, they will last 6 months instead of 3 months.

HORIZONTAL screens: Multiply the screen size by 4, and the wattage by 1.5Flow is 24 hours, and is at least 35 gph per inch of width of screen [60 lph per cm], EVEN IF one sided or horizontal.

Very rough screen made of roughed-up-like-a-cactus plastic canvas.

Clean algae off of screen every 7 to 14 days, so that you can see the white screen material.
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Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover

Postby engrchun » Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:58 am

thank you for the reply.
very nice and specific.
if will use UV for disease. will it be before or after the turf algae? tnx
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Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover

Postby SantaMonica » Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:33 am

It will not matter where the UV goes.
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Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover

Postby obet_carlos » Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:22 am

its better if its before.. since UV will kill everything from you ATS like pods that can feed your tank..
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